Proposal 1 (Chris Christodoulou)
Trophies for runners up except Usher Shield. Not Carried (2nd Place to be added to main trophy).
Proposal 2 (Tony Aldridge/Mike Thatcher & Nick Wood/Mark Spridgeon)
Revert League to 4 man teams to address the number of times teams struggled to field 5 players and addresses concerns over late finishes. Not Carried although 4 man rule is relaxed without limits.
Proposal 3 (Nick Wood/Mark Spridgeon)
Have a list of eligible players for handicap comps listed on the website, its currently too awkward asking if players are legible to play. Carried with amendment*
*Players under assessment will be marked in red until legible to play
Proposal 4 (Nick Wood/Mark Spridgeon)
Cup Competitions on Thursdays, The league becomes disrupted by individual comps being played on Wednesdays throughout the season, many players dont enter compsand leaves them without a regular game on a Wednesday Carried with amendments, All individual and doubles to be played before a set date rather than a specific day.
Proposal 5 (Nick Wood/Mark Spridgeon)
Remove variable handicaps, Adjust handicaps after each cycle or remove variable handicaps for a season, it appears some teams have played for their handicapeither for individual or team competitions. Not Carried
Proposal 6&7 (Tony Aldridge/Mike Thatcher)
Home captains to list players on board then away captain to list theirs. Carried
Proposal 8 (Tony Aldridge/Mike Thatcher, Totton)
Handicaps to be adjusted at the start of the season on current form. Withdrawn
Proposal 9 (Tony Aldridge/Mike Thatcher)
If a player wins or loses by 10 or less then no change to handicap . Not Carried
Proposal 10 (Tony Aldridge/Mike Thatcher)
If a player wins or loses by 40 or morethen handicap is adjusted by +/- 10 points. Carried
Proposal 11 (Tony Aldridge/Mike Thatcher)
Drop all knockout competitions except for Stuart Hamper and Usher Shield. Withdrawn
Proposal 12 (Derek Foster/Mike Henstredge)
Draw both teams at the start of the evening it takes 2 minutes. Not Read
Proposal 13 (Derek Foster/Mike Henstredge)
Referee to cal "and one". after the first red potted off the spot. Not Read
ITEM 6 – ACCOUNTS
Paul Lawrence explained the accounts were in a healthy position with just Park Gate unpaid for the previous season. And Robin will be added as signatory to the account.
ITEM 7 – CORRESPONDENCE
No correspondence was received
ITEM 8 – ANY OTHER BUSINESS
Discussion on the future of the league and suggestions on how to promote.
The meeting was closed by the President at 9 pm
Proposal 1 (Paul Lawrence/Ian Finch, Park Gate)
There should be no limits to minus handicaps, should a handicap exceed -200 then the additional points be given back to the opposing player. For example if Player A had a -250 HC and Player B a +25 then the game would start with Player A on -200 and Player B on +75.
This would have the effect continuing to handicap exceptionally good players whilst not increasing match times and allowing lower skilled players to compete.
Maintaining a maximum HC at +125, for example if Player B has a -95 HC or +110 HC and Player A has -250 then player B would start on +125 regardless of the amount of points given as this would be the maximum handicap. Carried 4 for and 3 against.
Proposal 2 (Tony Aldridge/Mike Thatcher, Totton)
Return to a straight knockout with first round losers going into the challenge cup, with no groups or seedings. Not Carried 3 for and 3 against
Proposal 3 (Tony Aldridge/Mike Thatcher, Totton)
No postponements, matches must be played on or before date specified. Carried with amendment*
*Cancellation only by illness and must be played within a week of returning to good health.
Proposal 4 (Mark Emm/Chris Bishop, St Denys)
Return to drawing the match opponents, with the league returning to 3 cycles there would be obvious advantages for certain teams over certain opponents.
It is also creating some players handicaps to be skewed from reality as they are always playing a certain type of player, it will also become slightly boring playing the same player each fixture. This should also never been applied to the Usher Shield unless we start making the Usher Shield 2
legged rounds. Carried 4 for and 3 against
Proposal 5 (Mark Emm/Malc Willis, St Denys)
Proposing a 10.30pm cut off time for matches to end, if the match is unfinished at this time then the match will end and scores taken at that point, the winner will be whoever is leading at that point based on the percentage of points that which is required. Not Carried
Proposal 6 (Mark Emm/Malc Willis, St Denys)
As well as or alternatively from proposal 5, if the last match starts after 9.45pm then both players start their game off of half points/handicaps. Some matches are finishing extremely late meaning club staff have to stay on to accommodate matches, this proposal could be optional and be decided between teams on the night, however BOTH
teams would need to agree on this otherwise it goes by the ruling. Not Carried
Proposal 7 (Tony Aldridge/Mike Thatcher, Totton)
To remove the +-5 point weekly handicap change and instead adjust handicaps after each league cycle, this would be a fairer way so that everyone plays each team off of the same handicap. Withdrawn
Proposal 8 (Mark Emm/Chris Bishop, St Denys)
To try and reduce the chances of late finishes, proposing a 50 aggregate points penalty for teams not ready to start at 7.30pm, unless agreed between teams prior to the match start or in the case of an uncontrollable event like blocked roads because of an accident. This includes both tables being brushed and ironed ready to play.
Not Carried
Proposal 9 (Mark Spridgeon/Nick Wood, Hamble)
Review to the 4 man rule, Players allowed to play twice each per cycle instead of twice in a season meaning each player can play twice 3 times in a season.
Carried
ITEM 6 – ACCOUNTS
The balance sheet was produced by Chris Bishop.
The Bank Account is now up and running thanks to our Chairman Paul Lawrence and the full balance of
£1071 transferred to this account from Terry Azor.
Again some “one-off” expenses have been paid in the past twelve months for the purchase of the Stuart Hamper Trophy raising the prestige of the competition and updated with ALL previous winners.
It was noted that some clubs still owed money from previous seasons, this will be collected in the coming weeks.
The Bank Account is still in great health with the only future ‘abnormal expenditure’ being the refurbishment of the League Shield, which is now underway.
Some additional revenue will be created by the sale of framed individual and team framed pictures.
ITEM 7 – CORRESPONDENCE
No correspondence was received
ITEM 8 – ANY OTHER BUSINESS
Trophies were handed out to various winners of competitions, including the belated 2022 Usher Shield Trophies.
The meeting was closed by the President at 9:30pm
Proposal 1 (Andy Carter/Chris Bishop, St Denys)
Andy Carter explained the principles behind this. To pro-rata reduce, by 10%, the points needed to be scored by each player on a match night. The purpose of this is to reduce late finishes, which have become more of an issue recently. Each player’s handicap would still be calculated as per the present system (moving by 5 points up or down depending on the result in their game) but the “starting points” would now differ to the handicap. For example, a “scratch” (zero) handicap player would now have to only score 180 points on a match night rather than 200. As a result, their “starting points” would be +20. A minus 250 player would now only have to score 405 points rather than 450, meaning their “starting points” would be -205.
The ”starting points” will not become the new handicap, however. If it did, the better players would slowly creep up again towards -250 and the effect of the change would be lost for those players within a season or two. Carried
Proposal 2 (Tony Aldridge/Brian Cannons, Totton)
This proposal was identical to Proposal 1, but stipulated that the points needed to be scored by an individual on a match night be reduced by 20%. However, this could not be discussed as neither Tony nor Brian were present at the AGM. Not discussed
Proposal 3 (Brian Bull/Clive Gamblin, Curdridge)
This proposal was to raise the upper handicap limit to +120 from +110. Brian Bull withdrew this proposal as he was satisfied that Proposal 1 would effectively perform the same purpose (as a +110 player would have a “starting points” of +119 under Proposal 1). Withdrawn
Proposal 4 (Nick Wood/Mark Spridgeon, Totton Rec)
The proposal was for teams to play each other in handicap order, to save time sorting out the draw and to allow higher handicap players to develop against players of similar ability. This would end lesser players playing against opponents they simply could not beat (due to the maximum handicap perhaps being artificially low) and might encourage more players to join the league. Withdrawn
Proposal 5 (Terry Azor/John Mullane, Chandlers Ford)
This proposal was for away captains to put their players where they wanted in the draw, after the home captain had written-up his team. This would mean there would be no draw “out of the hat” for pairings but instead the away captain could take a tactical view and put his players against whomever he wanted them to play. Matches might also start earlier if this proposal was adopted. Carried
Proposal 6 (Chris Bishop, St Denys)
This proposal was there as it was felt that Proposals 4 & 5 might “skew” handicaps. This proposal therefore proposed that handicap adjustments be made after each league cycle, rather than after each game as is current practice.
If high handicap players only played each other (for instance, if Proposal 4 was adopted) and lower handicap players only played each other (also Proposal 4) then that might artificially affect handicaps so that when competitions were played a number of people might have “false” handicap. Withdrawn
Mark Spridgeon was happy towithdraw Proposal 4 in favour of Proposal 5. It was felt that Proposal 5 would not unduly “skew” handicaps and therefore Chris Bishop withdrew Proposal 6.
Proposal 7 (Nick Wood/Mark Spridgeon, Hamble)
This proposal was to change the summer snooker league from a team competition to an individual competition.
Nick Wood felt that, unlike struggling to get a team together for team league games, an individual snooker league would be contested by keen players.
Chris Bishop advised that the idea behind a team competition was to encourage teams to enter the billiards league once they had played summer snooker. As this season’s snooker league was really a “pilot” event, Chris felt that more time was needed to allow things to develop. Not carried
Proposal 8 (Terry Azor/John Mullane, Chandlers Ford)
This proposal was for the billiard league format to be teams of four players rather than the current five players. This was withdrawn by Terry Azor as he was satisfied that Proposal 1 would fulfil the same aims as this proposal, namely to reduce match times and late nights. Withdrawn
Proposal 9 (Chris Bishop, St Denys)
The proposal was for the home player to always break (with the yellow/”spot” ball) to avoid wasting time “stringing”. This might save a few minutes on a match night. Not carried
Proposal 10
This was more a call for a discussion than an actual proposal.
It was agreed that the Four Man Rule be kept, having been brought in after Covid to reduce postponements. Each team may use the rule twice per cycle (as things stand that would be four times per season) though no single individual may play twice on a night on more than one occasion in a season.
It was agreed that the individual’s second game on a given night would not count towards ranking points.
That individual would play off the same handicap for each of his two games on a given night. His handicap the following week would be calculated on the outcome of the first of those games (unless if he won one and lost one his handicap would be unaltered).
Korbin Lowe raised the idea of three man teams helping new teams to enter the league (perhaps clubs where there is only one table). Whilst a welcome comment, it was noted that such clubs might be some distance from the Southampton area and would therefore mean significant travel distance.
ITEM 6 – ACCOUNTS
The balance sheet was produced by Chris Bishop.
Many “one-off” expenses have been paid in the past twelve months as trophies have been manufactured and (of course) paid for. These are now in place and, as a result, the expense on trophies in forthcoming years will be significantly reduced.
It was noted that some clubs still owed money from previous seasons, but it was agreed that this be written-off.
The HSBC account was closed in the Spring as, from January, charges began to be implemented which equated to a significant portion of association funds (between 10% and 20% of income).
An online “clubs and associations” account is now being sought and it is hoped that will be in place soon.
The funds held are currently in Andy Carter’s account (joint account with wife so if he’s hit by a bus there will still be access) though this is obviously not ideal.
The point was reiterated that captains are responsible for collecting fees for individual competitions and forwarding that money on. It is hoped that the new account may have the facility for funds to be deposited directly to it.
Clubs remain responsible for team entries, e.g. to the league.
ITEM 7 – CORRESPONDENCE
No correspondence was received
ITEM 8 – ANY OTHER BUSINESS
Trophies were handed out to various winners of competitions, though the Usher Shield remains with Chris Bishop at present.
The League Shield also remains with Chris as an upgrade is planned for it.
We are steering away from awarding runners-up trophies, but if there is support for them they may return in the future. Given the significant expenses on trophies recently it was felt that runners-up trophies could be dispensed with for this past season at least.
It was noted that the forthcoming season will consist of two “cycles” so each team will play every other team twice. This will allow the vast majority of games (league, cup, individuals) to be played on Wednesdays. The doubles matches will probably all be allocated to Thursdays.
Small gifts of appreciation were also handed-out to Paul Adams, Peter Green and Sid Hunt for their contributions in their various roles over the years. Paul accepted his and Peter’s gifts, whilst Terry Azor accepted the gift for Sid.
We wish them all well for the future, and hope to see them at games…at least now and again.
The meeting was closed by the President at 9:30pm
Proposal 1 (Chris Bishop, St Denys)
To reduce the number of postponed games I propose that if a team is one player short then they have the option of a player playing twice (said player to be nominated by opposing team). Not only will this relieve congestion from postponed fixtures, it will eradicate players travelling long distances to then not even participate in a game. Some teams struggle to field a full team at the best of times and with COVID it may prove even more difficult. If both teams can only field 4 players then the match can be played 4v4 but then the aggregate point would become 2pts.
If a team can only field 3 players then the match would be postponed as normal.
Chris Bishop stated that though he would prefer to see teams of five, this proposal might stop teams folding. It was mentioned by Terry Azor that captains could contact their opposite number in good time, and thus stop players travelling long distances who might then not even get a game. The difficulties of a player playing twice on a night were discussed: the player would probably have to be one of the first two of his team to play that night otherwise it would be difficult to make work. This led to a discussion (slightly off-subject) about games starting on time at 7.30pm, rather than closer
to 8pm. It was mentioned that some kind of handicap revision could occur in order to make games slightly shorter which would perhaps take 5 or 10 minutes off each game (A conversion chart will be put on the website shortly but this will be for information purposes only for now).
The motion was carried on the basis that those individuals willing to play a second game are put into a hat and drawn out before the match begins. If no individuals within a team are willing to play a second game then that game is forfeited 200-0.
Carried
Proposal 2 (Chris Bishop, St Denys)
To introduce a timed OPTION in the Gordon Lewis group stage. Currently the Gordon Lewis is 300 up in the group stages which is the best format based on highest placed runners up progressing so ideally would not be changed. However, with the new player ranking and the improved format it’s hopeful that this competition will start to grow and encourage a lot more players to enter which will bring its own problems of how long it takes to score 300 points. It’s therefore suggested that an optional 1hr 45minute time limit is introduced and a timer is set when match starts, when timer sounds the match is recorded at the current scores UNLESS the match is 90% completed (270 points) then it will be played through to the conclusion. Players would need to agree on this before match starts and if players fail to agree this rule would come into effect as the standard match rule.
Few people felt that the Gordon Lewis, as a scratch competition, would attract many players whose handicaps are on the higher side as these players would not see themselves as having much chance of winning a game.
Carried
Proposal 3 (Tony Aldridge, Totton Rec)
To reduce match nights to 4v4 for one season. For the coming season drop from 5 players down to 4 players then to be reviewed in 12 months. (As Proposal 1 and 3 are similar then they can be discussed, voted and concluded at the same time).
The proposer of the motion was not present at the meeting. It was pointed-out that teams with a good number of people “signed-on” (such as Chandlers Ford Central) would have more players unable to play regularly if this was brought into the league. It was also felt that we should be seeking to expand the number of people playing, if at all possible, rather than restricting the numbers.
Not Carried
Korbin Lowe raised the idea of league games being time-restricted in the future, and this is an option for the future.
ITEM 6 – ACCOUNTS
The balance sheet was produced by Sid Hunt. The league’s finances continue to be healthy. A question mark was put against the “League Entries” figure for 2019/20 which was shown as £200 but should be £400. Paul Adams will raise this with Sid Hunt.
ITEM 7 – CORRESPONDENCE
No correspondence was received
ITEM 8 – ANY OTHER BUSINESS
Having already shown their appreciation of Sid’s contributions over the years (Sid left the meeting before it concluded) with a round of applause, similar appreciation was shown to Paul Adams for all his work and time given as Results Secretary and Press Officer over 33 years. He will be contacted, infrequently we hope, for advice when it is needed.
The meeting then closed.
Minutes taken by Andrew Carter, Results Secretary August 2021
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